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. >> shepherd: if they were to break into the pentagon and do this physically, it would be war. i don't quite understand how much of a difference there is practically speaking. >> we are reaching a policy point where that decision's going to have to be made. at what point do we declare war in a cyberspace domain when somebody does something, you know. the intrusion i was on talking with you. i mean, we've talked a lot of times about china, the joint strike fighter intrusion, los alamos labs, very sensitive areas. nuclear weapons. stealth technology. if you can't beat us at the game, you steal our secrets to achieve parity quicker. it puts us at a disadvantage and makes the job of the people securing the infrastructure more costly and dangerous. >> shepherd: when this nation was in its infancy, people say we did the same thing. >> yeah. it was00 years ago. they need to get over that. not saying we're totally clean in some of these areas, but the sophistication, the state sponsorship, the fact that a couple of the chinese technology companies are staffed by former members of the pla that are in
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